Germany - VBL 1. Bundesliga 2023/24

    Quote from Matthias

    Which leads to the question: are there even any young German talents worth investing? :whistle: Grozer goes to Schwerin, Larissa Winter probably needs another year in 2nd league and practising with Dresden's main team, but other than that who is there? I wish Emilia Jordan and Valbona Ismaili would leave Straubing for some 1st league team but I don't think it will happen...

    Exactly! I hope that they will at least promote a libero from their youth team next to Jegdic. I thought that maybe Luisa Keller would be an option but she is rumoured to join Aachen.


    I'm not sure if Winter can continue playing for their 2nd team. She finishes school this summer so actually has to leave...

    Sometimes I think that a restriction on foreigners would also make sense in Germany. I sometimes have the feeling that we now do more for Dutch volleyball than for German volleyball.

    The sport can only become more popular in Germany in the long run if the national team is more successful. And consequently attracts more sponsors.

    It is often lamented that a restriction on foreigners will destroy the Bundesliga. I see it differently. It will save the Bundesliga in the long run. As long as the clubs don't have to, they will never put enough money into the sporting development of youngsters. And the ratings are a lot higher on television/streaming with a successful national team. But the clubs always just talk stuff and in the end do nothing.

    Quote from Marisaala

    I'm not sure if Winter can continue playing for their 2nd team. She finishes school this summer so actually has to leave...

    Oh right, and that's a flaw in the system in German youth sports. Winter isn't ready yet to be full time member of Dresden's first team, but with 1-2 more years to develop she could be. With only 10 teams left in Bundesliga she'll hardly find a team there now, so probably she goes to some 2nd league team where she won't improve anymore or she'll simply quit professional sports, and that's the fate of many young players.


    IMO a foreign player restriction won't solve any of these problems but create even more. German players could demand a much higher salary because all the clubs would fight hard to get some of the few players who have the level to play as starter, which means less money for quality foreign players, which means worse level of competition, which means the German players won't improve a lot either. Imagine what the final series would have looked like with Wezorke-Keller-Petter instead of Timmerman-Segura-Koskelo and Maase-Leweling-Hetmann instead of Nemeth-Jasper-Savic :gone:

    Quote from Matthias

    Imagine what the final series would have looked like with Wezorke-Keller-Petter instead of Timmerman-Segura-Koskelo and Maase-Leweling-Hetmann instead of Nemeth-Jasper-Savic :gone:

    So why did Stuttgart bring these players in the first place? Was there pressure from the DVV?


    But I don't think Italy would have such a good national team if it weren't for the foreigner restrictions. The national team in particular gets very good ratings on Italian television.

    Quote from Ricky89

    So why did Stuttgart bring these players in the first place? Was there pressure from the DVV?


    But I don't think Italy would have such a good national team if it weren't for the foreigner restrictions. The national team in particular gets very good ratings on Italian television.

    In order to have cheap bench players to be able to have a strong and expensive starting six, plus it's good for the reputation to advertise with "hey, look how many German players we have" :whistle:


    Italy is no comparison. Volleyball has a great tradition there and the education system for coaches has very high demands, which leads to very high quality standards in the education of young players as well. In Italy's top teams there are no Italian players as starters simply because they're Italian but because they are world class players.

    Quote from Matthias

    Italy is no comparison. Volleyball has a great tradition there and the education system for coaches has very high demands, which leads to very high quality standards in the education of young players as well. In Italy's top teams there are no Italian players as starters simply because they're Italian but because they are world class players.

    Of course you are right! But then you have to try to change something. Basically, you've already given the answer yourself. In Germany every cent is invested in the squad, but not in the training of young players

    Quote from Ricky89

    Of course you are right! But then you have to try to change something. Basically, you've already given the answer yourself. In Germany every cent is invested in the squad, but not in the training of young players

    But a foreign player restriction won't change that, it would take 10 years to see the effect and no club will wait that long. Besides, the youth academies of Dresden, Schwerin and Münster still are doing a very good job, but as I said above, there need to be new ways to make the transition from youth to professional level easier because that's the step where a lot of talent gets lost.

    Quote from Ricky89

    But there would still be a club every year that becomes German champion. And I don't think volleyball would have fewer viewers than it has now.

    I disagree. Right now the league advertises with the goal to be among the top 3 leagues in Europe and they are indeed fighting for 3rd place behind Italy and Turkey with Poland and France. This wouldn't be possible without high level foreign players such as Rivers, Lee, all of the Dutch NT players etc. If the level of the current teams of 5-8 place would suddenly be the level of the final series, Sport1 would be less interested in broadcasting for sure...

    Quote from Matthias

    I disagree. Right now the league advertises with the goal to be among the top 3 leagues in Europe and they are indeed fighting for 3rd place behind Italy and Turkey with Poland and France. This wouldn't be possible without high level foreign players such as Rivers, Lee, all of the Dutch NT players etc. If the level of the current teams of 5-8 place would suddenly be the level of the final series, Sport1 would be less interested in broadcasting for sure...

    But that doesn't seem to be a problem in football. Sport1 has shown 4th league football there on Monday evenings for many years. Until the protest of the football fans was successful because they didn't want a Monday game. And no Messi or Ronaldo plays in the 4th league either.


    Sport1 only shows volleyball as a filler anyway. And not because it's successful

    At the end the work with young players is much worse in Germany as in Italy, Turkey or Russia (and even Serbia!) - so we have too few players strong enough for first league now and as Matthias wrote: changing this takes a decade or so... and the budgets of our teams are ridiculous compared to Turkey, Italy and even Russia. While the latter has some issues related to the war now, Turkey and Italy will be out of reach regarding budget and everything for a decade or longer (or maybe ever).

    Quote from Ricky89

    But that doesn't seem to be a problem in football. Sport1 has shown 4th league football there on Monday evenings for many years. Until the protest of the football fans was successful because they didn't want a Monday game. And no Messi or Ronaldo plays in the 4th league either.


    Sport1 only shows volleyball as a filler anyway. And not because it's successful

    No, volleyball is not only a filler there, but considered not on equal height with football even in considerably lower leagues. This is an issue, which volleyball shares with nearly all kinds of sports in Germany, which is frustrating, but the negative truth.

    Last Saturday game 4. Sport1 only broadcasts the Potsdam-Stuttgart game from 5:30 p.m. Start of the game was 5:00 p.m. Before that, the game Hungary-Denmark from the Ice Hockey World Championship is shown. There is no moderator in the arena, only the commentator. And if the game had lasted longer than 7:15 p.m., they would have ended the broadcast on television.

    Julia Retzlaff, Managing Director of the Volleyball Bundesliga


    And economical?


    In Turkey and Russia, the state plays along, there are completely different financial conditions there. We can't get there. That's why we tend to orientate ourselves towards the leagues in Italy and Poland. This shows us that we still have to improve.

    By the way Pia Leweling is just 25 years old - it is the usual desaster for the VBL, players quitting in this best age the professional sports. She could have be a leading player in a good team in second league pro for example... not only a substitute in good first league teams.