World League 2013

    Quote from bella

    Special agent Ruciak in match 12 for today. Igła is out. Jarosz will be a starting OPP most likely. Winiar with knee injury, donnu if he'll be able to play ;(


    Guys, I won't be with you today on forum during match. It drives me crazy. I hope you won't kill each other with words. Play nice ;)

    Sucks about Winiarski. I like him and he had some good attacks against USA.


    I won't be in the forum either though I might check what you are posting from time to time. I want to concentrate only on the game.


    I also expect tight game. Everything is possible. I don't think that the Varna hall is the best for such top level game either, but unfortunately the federation doesn't ask us. I know that the fans will support the team, no doubt about it - we just can't compare this hall with others we've seen so far from the games in other countries.

    Psalm 23
    King James Version (KJV)
    23 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.


    2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.


    3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.


    4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.


    5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.


    6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

    Quote from Bartek



    ' Yes, that's true. I'm pregnat with Your Lover for whom You have left Dad, Mom '


    Random words generator :D

    Its time to play ball !!! :cheesy:
    Tonight first match will take place in Teheran. Tille was cut of the rooster.
    It would be really funny to kick the russians out of final6, but as Heynen said, he will be satisfied if germany wins one match at all. Maybe ramadan plays in our cards?


    Hope everyone will enjoy this weekends matches. When im coming back on sunday, i guess there will be a lot to read here..... Have fun :thumbup:

    Quote from YavorD

    Dear specialists, please, do explain your theory to us, the shepherds. Where have you seen such a system outside Poland? Maybe only in Italy, as far as I remember. And since when has Bulgaria been a part of your global conspiracy theory?

    I find it funny how you assumed that was some kind of pun specifically towards Bulgaria :D Yes, my response was a bit provocative, I admit. But what I meant was that as long as challenge is not obligatory (as it should be), very few federations will consider implementing it. They will always try to spend as little money as possible and they won't even bother about installing the cameras unless they're forced to. The fact that lack of challenge system can help the line refs meddle is a whole different story.
    EDIT: On a side note - this season the whole system is still a big asset to Poland mostly, since our players are already well used to it and know how it works, probably even better than some refs and any confusion could work in our favor. I find it natural it's not the hosts' intention to make our lives any easier.

    Quote from ladybugg

    I find it funny how you assumed that was some kind of pun specifically towards Bulgaria :D Yes, my response was a bit provocative, I admit. But what I meant was that as long as challenge is not obligatory (as it should be), very few federations will consider implementing it. They will always try to spend as little money as possible and they won't even bother about installing the cameras unless they're forced to. The fact that lack of challenge system can help the line refs meddle is a whole different story.

    That is without doubt true. The only way all countries to have such system (which I personally welcome and I think that it will make the games fairer and more enjoyable for me because the purpose is lost when the refs decide the game and not the players) is if the federations are obligated. However I assume that a lot of federations can't afford this and might decide to not participate in the FIVB which might cause problems for FIVB and the tournament. I think that this is the reason for the current implementation of those rules.


    Question to the ones that have watched Group B games. I didn't have time to watch them that's why I'm asking. Do you think that Germany could beat twice Iran clean?

    people here confused the Hawk Eye system with a video replay sistem. The first one is impossible to be used in volleyball because we have players touching the ball (net, anthena) and not only ball being in or out the court, Unlike tennis where ball touches only the courts. So for that Hawk Eye albiet very expensive system is particulary useless in volleyball. It is a computer generated calculation on the thraectory the ball had, and not an actuall video replay.


    Video replay however is way less expensive and I would say - easier to install. You only have to have good HD cameras on good positions (rememmber that slow motion HD replay Poland has at the WL finals they host?). It was amazing and you could clearly see absolutely everything that happens - touches, lines!
    FIVB should impose this system becomming obligatory but until then - federations (albiet Polish) will not spent the money this system requires and that is reagrless of the team/venue or match importance.

    Quote from secretk

    That is without doubt true. The only way all countries to have such system (which I personally welcome and I think that it will make the games fairer and more enjoyable for me because the purpose is lost when the refs decide the game and not the players) is if the federations are obligated. However I assume that a lot of federations can't afford this and might decide to not participate in the FIVB which might cause problems for FIVB and the tournament. I think that this is the reason for the current implementation of those rules.


    Question to the ones that have watched Group B games. I didn't have time to watch them that's why I'm asking. Do you think that Germany could beat twice Iran clean?

    Could - yes! Possibility - would be very difficult. Iran is playing at home, got some confidence recently, the sports hall would be on fire. I don't believe Germany can take both games with 6 points in total, but you never know. I agree with Heynen, who moderately claims even a win would be a success. We'll see, though. I think the likelihood of USA taking 6 points away in Brazil and Germany doing the same in Iran is about the same. We've seen bigger surprises, so surely chances are there to be taken, but I rather doubt it.

    Quote from nadejda

    people here confused the Hawk Eye system with a video replay sistem. The first one is impossible to be used in volleyball because we have players touching the ball (net, anthena) and not only ball being in or out the court, Unlike tennis where ball touches only the courts. So for that Hawk Eye albiet very expensive system is particulary useless in volleyball. It is a computer generated calculation on the thraectory the ball had, and not an actuall video replay.


    Video replay however is way less expensive and I would say - easier to install. You only have to have good HD cameras on good positions (rememmber that slow motion HD replay Poland has at the WL finals they host?). It was amazing and you could clearly see absolutely everything that happens - touches, lines!
    FIVB should impose this system becomming obligatory but until then - federations (albiet Polish) will not spent the money this system requires and that is reagrless of the team/venue or match importance.

    I've seen hawk-eye in volleyball somewhere, I'm absolutely sure. I know what it is. Ofc, it can't measure whether a person or a ball touched the net, etc. But why not apply it to decide if a ball is in or out. The usual video replays are sometimes useless. I've seen refs looking at replays for a good 5-10 minutes, breaking the game tempo and still not being sure of their decision. I've also seen decisions overruled when looked at the video replay and then overruled again on the second look. Saying that, I don't argue that the video replay is useless, only that a Hawk-eye system would be a lot better. (I think it's expensive but isn't it just a fixed initial cost and no maintenance costs after that?)


    They can also include this IBM system in the net saying to the ref when something has touched the net (like in tennis). I don't think it's expensive and it's pretty useful. That leaves only things like block-out and player violations (double-touch, interference in the other side of the field, etc) which will remain subjective.


    But nobody has answered my question. If they make it mandatory, who's obligation is to pay for all those systems? The federation, the broadcasters on contract or the hall owners?

    Quote from nadejda

    Video replay however is way less expensive and I would say - easier to install. You only have to have good HD cameras on good positions (rememmber that slow motion HD replay Poland has at the WL finals they host?). It was amazing and you could clearly see absolutely everything that happens - touches, lines!
    FIVB should impose this system becomming obligatory but until then - federations (albiet Polish) will not spent the money this system requires and that is reagrless of the team/venue or match importance.

    It maybe less expensive, but it's still very expensive. We are talking about hundreds of thousands euros

    Thank you, Polish fans who support us with our battle against Lazarov which is part of the war for volleyball's reputation :obey:


    http://zbicie.pl/1na1/nie-boj%…-os%C3%B3b-tego-nie-zrobi

    Quote from triglav_kran

    I've seen hawk-eye in volleyball somewhere, I'm absolutely sure. I know what it is. Ofc, it can't measure whether a person or a ball touched the net, etc. But why not apply it to decide if a ball is in or out. The usual video replays are sometimes useless. I've seen refs looking at replays for a good 5-10 minutes, breaking the game tempo and still not being sure of their decision. I've also seen decisions overruled when looked at the video replay and then overruled again on the second look. Saying that, I don't argue that the video replay is useless, only that a Hawk-eye system would be a lot better. (I think it's expensive but isn't it just a fixed initial cost and no maintenance costs after that?)


    They can also include this IBM system in the net saying to the ref when something has touched the net (like in tennis). I don't think it's expensive and it's pretty useful. That leaves only things like block-out and player violations (double-touch, interference in the other side of the field, etc) which will remain subjective.


    But nobody has answered my question. If they make it mandatory, who's obligation is to pay for all those systems? The federation, the broadcasters on contract or the hall owners?


    I don't know if it really is wise to put on so much money into the Hawk Eye which only tells if the ball was in or out - a good video replay should be able to say the same, volleyball ball is way bigger than the tennis one and it doesn't fly that fast. I've also seen very bad video replays, that is true, it depeneds on the cammera quality - that's why I pointed the ones in Poland, they were outstanding! :obey: You could see even the smalles finger touches :obey: :obey: We need that IMO!


    I don't know if the IBM system for net touches can apply too. ASAIK players cannot touch only the fillet, but it is OK to touch the bottom part, no? I don't know how this system will aply then ?(

    Quote from YavorD

    Last, and I hope it is the last time we really talk about it even if it's always Polish users giving us reasons to reopen the topic again and again, we don't act like we are special or something. Here, in this specific example, I see a "special" country complaining about equipment other countries don't have or can't afford (for whatever reasons). So, yes, Polish users and their attitude do not appear less special ;)

    Well, I'm not complaining about the equipment, as you're trying to tell. I see I have to say it one more time - I'm looking forward watching a fair game and fair judging today. I've seen already how big problems with this referees in this year's World League are having. Are my expectations overstated? Is that really special treating? These are the most important matches so far - for both teams. I think we all want to see a great fight, with no referee's influence.
    I can see no similarity between mine behavior and statement and some of yours, which makes me think your national team is like a victim, you are the victims of "conspiracy", as you named it. Because Brazil wants to kick you out of the competition, that's why CBV decided to change the hours of playing... Everything comes to you, everyone is against you, right? That's ridiculous.

    Quote from rugby

    It maybe less expensive, but it's still very expensive. We are talking about hundreds of thousands euros

    About 3000 euros, according to our press. But I have no idea whether that's for one match or two. Anyways, it's about 6k PLN per match here in Poland. And you don't need to own the equipment, you just pay for the installation and service. There's an outside company which does that.
    Those slow motion HD replays on TV are thanks to Polsat, but they're not used as a part of the system. Apparently challenge cameras are even quicker and more accurate (better fps).

    wait, so polish federation is paying only 3000 per game? :what: that,s a great deal considering one of those high speed cams can be 40-50 k euros

    Quote from rugby

    wait, so polish federation is paying only 3000 per game? :what: that,s a great deal considering one of those high speed cams can be 40-50 k euros


    maybe that is the price if you have a local company that provides that service. I doubt it will be so cheep if they have to travel arround the world carring the equipment, though.
    even so the price is great and if there is a market for that service, there sure will be companies to supply it on a good price. That sounds promising to me. I hope FIVB takes the nessesary measures.

    One interesting thing to note about Hawk Eye is that while the public views the system is flawless in delivering clear-out in/out decisions, errors may actually happen therein. It indeed involves an algorithm to predict the trajectory of the object. This prediction could deviate from the truth at times but it's hidden from the public should it occur:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/scie…jul/08/hawk-eye-wimbledon


    Regarding whose obligation to pay for the video-replay system, it should be the federation or FIVB itself on paper. Each federation is required to pay FIVB a lump sum (in the scale of ~1 million USD if I recall) as admission fee if their country is qualified to play in WL. To make video-replay mandatory, FIVB may use part of the money it receives to help each federation install the system, a less costly option considering a massive usage week over week and across countries.


    Quote from triglav_kran

    I've seen hawk-eye in volleyball somewhere, I'm absolutely sure. I know what it is. Ofc, it can't measure whether a person or a ball touched the net, etc. But why not apply it to decide if a ball is in or out. The usual video replays are sometimes useless. I've seen refs looking at replays for a good 5-10 minutes, breaking the game tempo and still not being sure of their decision. I've also seen decisions overruled when looked at the video replay and then overruled again on the second look. Saying that, I don't argue that the video replay is useless, only that a Hawk-eye system would be a lot better. (I think it's expensive but isn't it just a fixed initial cost and no maintenance costs after that?)


    They can also include this IBM system in the net saying to the ref when something has touched the net (like in tennis). I don't think it's expensive and it's pretty useful. That leaves only things like block-out and player violations (double-touch, interference in the other side of the field, etc) which will remain subjective.


    But nobody has answered my question. If they make it mandatory, who's obligation is to pay for all those systems? The federation, the broadcasters on contract or the hall owners?

    Quote from muse

    Well, I'm not complaining about the equipment, as you're trying to tell. I see I have to say it one more time - I'm looking forward watching a fair game and fair judging today. I've seen already how big problems with this referees in this year's World League are having. Are my expectations overstated? Is that really special treating? These are the most important matches so far - for both teams. I think we all want to see a great fight, with no referee's influence.
    I can see no similarity between mine behavior and statement and some of yours, which makes me think your national team is like a victim, you are the victims of "conspiracy", as you named it. Because Brazil wants to kick you out of the competition, that's why CBV decided to change the hours of playing... Everything comes to you, everyone is against you, right? That's ridiculous.

    Quote

    I think we've got the same theory :thumbup:

    First, the fact that you have to write 2-3 additional posts to clarify a misleading statement you made is a start. Second, please, quote where I speak of a global tendency against our team? That would be ridiculous indeed, I never posted anything like this. If someone did, go deal with him/her. If there's a 0.00001% chance for this to be true, it might be a part of someone's strategy in general, not against a specific team. I started discussion with you asking you for explanation (OK, in a sarcastic way, but nevertheless), so, please, use arguments I wrote, not some else's (written due to a lot of free time and imagination). Third, of course there is no similarity between what I said and what you falsely implied. I asked about an explanation, everyone's responsible for what they write, you almost started a spam war. Last, there are no victims. If I write in a similar tone something about Poland (I am not gonna do it to prove my point), there will be people to agree/be amused and such that will attack me just as well. But you can't generalize based on those who will feel insulted.


    BTW, if there has been someone acting as a victim (can't remember precisely, haven't read everything in every thread), go make a point, not "theories".


    Enough of this b*****t.