Trash Can Thread: All Volleyball related discussions

  • This:flower:.Many users still do not grasp the role that the concept of purity played in several tragedies last century. I find it hard to believe that discussions about ethnicity and race still persist into the 21st century, especially when they are often encouraged by a moderator on this forum. It was Vargas’ decision to play for the country where she has lived for the past six years. Why does it matter so much to some users here?

    Gaslighting, missing the point of the subject, putting words in people’s mouth, failing to realise the point…


    I might as wel stop opening those posts from blocked users once for all..

  • You still don't get it, it seems you are so brainwashed at home that simple concepts seem like some crazy idea to you. Learn the difference between ethnicity and nationality first, in sports we select people by nationality not race or ethnicity :white: (the fact I have to say this) Many national teams all over the world consist of players that are not part of the dominant ethnic group in a country, I have family representing Turkey for womens football and handball team for example yet we're not really Turkic/Turkish. Same things happens all around the world, Germany, France, Italy. Is Egonu less worthy of representing of Italy because she isn't Italian racially? I'm sorry for you the rest of the world has moved away from the concept of genetic purity, we go by nationality, any case considered naturalization by international volleybal regulations is naturalization. No one cares to see a DNA test. I didn't say Meliha is not naturalization, but I said it's the same case as Serbian naturalized players, and yes she would be considered Turkish in Ottoman times, but I am not living in this fantasy so I accept her as naturalized and her ethnic identity and her origin and her nationality and I invited you to accept the simple fact the same logic follows for people born outside of Serbia. I am not trying to be political or saying how they should feel culturally or ethnically, in fact self-determination is a human right imo, but there are such rules for a reason as I said. I don't know about Neriman's case and if it is considered naturalization, I think she came too early for it to be considered as such but if she was similar case as Meliha and Brankica, yes I would include her as well. Get over yourselves and your fascist ideas already.

    Very well explained but they wouldn't get it anyways. It is literally same thing if they want us believe that mihajlovic counts as Serbian then they all should count Turkish because historically they were part of Ottoman anyways. So it just depends on where one draw the line in the history. It is just so sad people from a country which suffered the most from ethnic wars are the ones that keep bringing ethnicity topic over and over again🤦 it is funny to see you guys are trying to give lectures on what counts ethnicity or what not depending on your liking

  • I think this Serbians of Bosnia(who lives there for decades and even though their motherland is Bosnia and Herzegovina) and Serbia thing is too political. Those Serbian ethnicity in Bosnia and probably Serbia dont see them as part of Bosnia and Herzogovina and it is too normal for both of them to represent Serbia. We know the political issues in Bosnia, Serbs and Bosnians cant get along well and Serbians(Republica Srpska) want to be part of Serbia or independent. So, it is very normal for both Mihajlovics and Boskovics families and Serbian users here that these players choose to represent Serbia but not their motherland and this is not naturalization, it is the way should be anyway.


    However, Vargas getting Turkish citizenship isnt as you want to see. Buying her for NT was the way Tercic and Serbia tried to do but failed:whistle: She got an offer from TVF and she choose to represent a country which she sees her future in there.

    Carutasu isnt bought as well. She came to Turkey at very young age and has been playing in Turkey more than she played in Romania. And as far as I know her family lives in Turkey as well and her brother is a basketball player in one of U teams in Anadolu Efes. She speaks Turkish fluently, sees her future in Turkey and her family supports in this. So it is very normal I think. I dont see any difference between Antropova and Carutasus cases. It is a bit funny that one is very accepted in here but the other one is seen like a deal involed money. (And we have Aguero and Costagrande cases in exact the same NT)


    Anyway, even though I have written down something about this, I hope this topic comes to an end. I say it as a volleyball lover, who started to follow volleyball after I was very impressed by watching Agüero in Italian NT for the first time (ECH 07). I have really enjoyed watching Agüero in Italy and I am very happy about Vargas that she can make her olympic dream come true.

  • I might as wel stop opening those posts from blocked users once for all..

    why do you even do that? This is literally the whole idea of blocking a user😂

  • Now this is a way to have a decent disscusion, eventhough this is no thread for such thing so sorry to all..

    I love your post eventhough we can have different views on topic.


    Whole Serbia and Bosnia thing is complicated and we are cool nowadays, at least normal people politicians aside. Most people see eachother really close. The thing is you can choose country to represent based on few things in every sport:

    Place of birth, where you lived part of your life, where yoir parents are from etc.. I find it very fair as some feel more connected to some country.


    The problem is when people start to confuse 2 different things and try to gaslight others into believing their agenda.


    Vargas is naturalized and that’s a fact, she neither has Turkish background or is born in Turkey.. and sure, people love for athlete to be able to accomplish their dreams. The problem here is that saying the thruth offends some people so they will go out of their way to try to insult or provoke you, or try to twist words and bring wrong conclusions to make them feel better.
    But truth is truth and there is no need to be insulted by it or try to insult others back with false conclusions about other people’s perspective on things.. and above all try to either bring subject to different topic (like this DNA whole thing) and failing to get the point, or accusing people of something they didn’t say. It’s masterclass gaslighting when someone tries to turn subject away from topic and start accusing someone of false things, when in the first place they start the whole thing.

    This was from my side no disscusion about Vargas at all but about local players rule and how clubs abuse it.. The problem came when group of frustrated individuals miss the point and start bringing non-related war topics just for the sake of provoking.


    I have no problem with players representing whatever country, however I feel that it destroys the feel of National Team volleyball competition. If it helps them achive their dreams then I’m happy for them but my first point stands. But I won’t say nothing if a people are drawing wrong paralels just for the sale of them feeling better.

    But again that all was not even the point of first topic.


    Now, can someone of mods move all this into “politics” thread please, thanks.

  • Place of birth, where you lived part of your life, where yoir parents are from etc.. I find it very fair as some feel more connected to some country.


    Vargas is naturalized and that’s a fact, she neither has Turkish background or is born in Turkey..

    Vargas has been living in Turkiye for 6 years, why this does not count for her? And how do you know exactly Vargas does not feel connected?

  • Gaslighting, missing the point of the subject, putting words in people’s mouth, failing to realise the point…


    I might as wel stop opening those posts from blocked users once for all..

    Like you talking about Boskovic against me when I said Mihajlovic and Meliha. You have some level of self-awareness at least. Now you continue about gaslighting and changing the narrative just as you did in your post above. There is absolutely no one here that said Vargas isn't naturalized, neither is it the convo, yet you are blabbering on about it because it's the only thing you can actually stand some ground on. The projecting is strong on this one. :rolll:


    Maybe next time stop being so defensive and have the self-awareness to also critique your own ideas and how your way of thinking naturally will naturally bring across unnecessary topics about the situations in Bosnia and Serbia and the past war. Meliha and Brankica are simply similar situations, until FIVB starts taking DNA or genetic purity or cultural continuation (:rolll:) into account they are also the same case as players like Vargas. So we can all continue considering every case naturalization that is indeed recognized as such. This is all everyone is saying. Jack is just someone that married to a Turkish person and not someone the federation bought for Turkish NT, saying that is quite disrespectful is what the narrative here was and ofc some users also trolled you because of the disrespect but to me then it is only deserved :wavy:


    Whether someone wants to move to a country for some genetic/racial mission or because they fell in love with the culture or because they had a good career opportunity, the fact remains, whatever is officially considered naturalization by the FIVB/CEV is on paper the same: naturalization. However moving abroad is not a crime, to make it less unfair there are official rules, simple. I don't get this endless discussion honestly. Nationality decides whoever plays in which team in most countries still and not race, hope you can understand this. Even if they do not belong to the dominant ethnic group.

  • This may be off topic, but a couple hours ago Yuan Xinyue confirmed with VB (1 year)

    Can we get mods to remove this to a more fitting thread




    Amazing news, I will spare to book my VB seats as close as possible to the court for maximum decibel effect

  • I have no problem with players representing whatever country, however I feel that it destroys the feel of National Team volleyball competition. If it helps them achive their dreams then I’m happy for them but my first point stands. But I won’t say nothing if a people are drawing wrong paralels just for the sale of them feeling better.

    But again that all was not even the point of first topic.

    you sound like you have a lot of problems with this topic. Don't be so hypocritical by pouring all your hatred and then say 'oh no you guys are gaslighting, I don't have any problem with that' just like a true gas lighter says:roll: the biggest irony is that your own country tried to naturalized Vargas at first place. But since your federation is so poor, you guys are so bitter about this topic 🤦

  • Do you know if these numbers are net salary or gross salary? In other words, before or after tax. Usually the agent charges a 5-10% fee as well.


    Although Turkey is a tax heaven for athletes, its mostly for local or domestic ones. Because the foreign players still need to declare income in their own country. Hence in addition to the 20% tax charged in Turkey they need to pay like 30% more tax in case they are residents in say Slovakia, Germany or Sweden where the upper-bracket rate is roughly 50-55%. I dont know the upper-limit of the bracket in Serbia, but in Sweden it is 55.5%.


    This means, in essence, that a player like Isabelle Haak quite plausbily "only" makes like 450k out of a salary of 1m euro in addition to the agency fee of say 10%. Some famous athletes, like Novak Djokovic, therefore opts to declare residency in so called "tax heavens" such as Monaco in order to out-maneuver the authorities. But its quite difficult for a volley pro to obtain residency in Monaco as you need to reside there at least three months per year and deposit a minimum of 500.000 euro in a Monaco bank.

    Moving this here as it is more suitable thread than Transfer News for sure, LoL.


    Serbia is pretty close to "tax heaven", LoL, (they are just bad regulated), but probably (99%) Boskovic doesn't pay taxes in Serbia for Eczacibasi salary, for two reasons


    1) At the moment, according to tax treatment, Tijana is most likely not even a resident of the Republic of Serbia.


    But even if somehow she is (quite impossible)


    1) She obviously pay tax for that salary in Turkiye while Serbia (as many other countries) have double taxation regulation, among others also with Turkiye, which preventing to pay for the same amount tax twice.


    Other incomes like sponsors deals, obviously government awards,....,that's the other story but things with club salary is pretty much like this.



    In tennis, the situation is drastically different, the sponsorship contracts are much larger and that is certainly the main reason why Novak (among many others) chose Monaco as his residence.

  • In the US that would be highly unlikely. In case Boskovic were a citizen of USA, she would 100% still need to tax both in Turkey and in USA. I am aware of a lot of players who dont report their foreign incomes, but its illegal and often leads to severe sanctions from authorities.


    Look here in the case of basketball pro Randolph Morris:


    "After Morris’ agent told him the team was handling all his taxes, he thought that included U.S. federal and state taxes. But the Beijing Ducks were only paying Morris’ taxes to the Chinese government. Chinese government records obtained by the United States indicated the Ducks paid about $6.6 million in taxes on Morris’ behalf to the Chinese government. The team did not pay any taxes on Morris’ behalf to the United States."


    Source: https://www.kentucky.com/news/…422133.html#storylink=cpy


    Here is another case, the one of Romeo Travis, which outlines another player who got caught with tax evasion by the authorities. He played pro basketball in France, Ukraine, Phillipines etc but deliberatedly under-reported his overseas earnings to the US government in order to pay less tax in his home country.


    https://eu.beaconjournal.com/s…-coach-akron/70035261007/


    In case Romeo Travis and Randolph Morris are liable to the federal income tax system, despite playing abroad or overseas, there is no reason to believe the likes of Dana Rettke, Matthew Anderson and Kathryn Plummer are not acting under the same rules as well.

  • Boscovic would have to legally be a citizen of Serbia to play for it, right? So she'd have to have some kind of tax responsibilities.


    As for the agent, Carlini said the club pays for the agent, not the athlete.


    Boscovic's dad is probably her manager, not her agent.

  • Boscovic would have to legally be a citizen of Serbia to play for it, right? So she'd have to have some kind of tax responsibilities.


    As for the agent, Carlini said the club pays for the agent, not the athlete.


    Boscovic's dad is probably her manager, not her agent.

    She is citizen but not a resident so as i said already she doesn't pay taxes on incomes she made in other countries.

  • Doesn't everyone just pay taxes in the country they work in? (When they also have/rent a residence)

    In the US, the IRS tax their citizens on "worldwide income" regardless of where you reside. The system is fairly similar in several countries, such as United Kingdom. But a lot of other countries have different regulations, and its possible, as Bogdan outlined above, that a country like Serbia merely tax their citizens based on residency and not on citizenship. Different rules makes this issue somewhat of a mess tbh!

  • Boscovic would have to legally be a citizen of Serbia to play for it, right? So she'd have to have some kind of tax responsibilities.


    As for the agent, Carlini said the club pays for the agent, not the athlete.


    Boscovic's dad is probably her manager, not her agent.

    Yes, but the agency fee is still a part of the players total salary or "contract value". Hence in case a team employs a player and provide him or her with a contract worth 100.000 euro for one year, then the agent obtains roughly 10.000 euro of that amount. The club then pays 90.000 euro to the player and 10.000 to the agent. The club merely pays the fee on behalf of the player for the sake of simplicity and to avoid unnecessary conflicts.