The 2013 CEV Champions League

    Quote from ErolGarip

    For me, Naz hasn't proved anything yet. She has been lucky in playing at very good teams in last 2-3 years. If Nilay played as starter at Fener last year or at Vakif this year, Fener last year and Vakif this year could be still CEV champions. So, Naz hasn't really done any special thing yet. We had seen her at Olympic, with not a very good team, Turkey NT and she failed there. I'd say "get rid of Naz out of Vakif" if she were an old setter, but, she is only 22, so, she has credit. Other than her young age, of course, she has some other advantages such as tallness, block-ability and some smartness in front of net, but, she is like slow motion with predictable settings. She hasn't shown speed, variety, etc yet. She has best setter awards twice? Well, those awards don't mean much as usually some players from winner team are awarded and these awards given by CEV are usually about CEV politics (marketing, PR, etc.) Normally, Gozde should definitely have been awarded this year as her contribution of Gozde to Vakif success has been more than Naz. If Gozde was awarded, Naz wouldn't have got any award. Or, Brakocevic wouldn't have gotten any award if Gozde was awarded. So, it was an injustice to Gozde, but, she doesn't complain about that and that's why she is a good captain.


    Ya, when talking about top 5 setters in the world, it is really none of her business.
    She was lucky to have Kim and Sokolova last year. It was all about Kim and Sokolova last year, her sets didn't really matter.
    This year the same.

    Quote from Shiznut81

    Takeshita Ognjenovic Antonijevic Tomkom Berg


    I would say are Takeshita, Wei ,Tomkom ,Lo Biano ,Berg

    berg this year was awfull big time seems her career is on down turn big time even nilay was better then her so i would place lo bianco which i forgot instead of berg and are u serious about wei btw first time i see someone mentioning her at all

    Quote from Shiznut81

    berg this year was awfull big time seems her career is on down turn big time even nilay was better then her so i would place lo bianco which i forgot instead of berg and are u serious about wei btw first time i see someone mentioning her at all

    First Wei is a great setter! Nobody mentions her because she is not so popular in the media like Takeshita or Tomkom.. and for many years she was a sub for Feng who was great and never had a real chance to play. And for Berg she is not playing so bad.. she is playing decent looking at her team.. No chemistry and she has never played in a team where only 1 or 2 players should score... Eda got injured so their scoring MB was out. Paula and Seda were very bad so she only has Kim... FB menagement should've thought about that when hiring her, than maybe Nalay would do the same job - set only to Kim..

    there is 1 thing to be great and completely another to be in top 5 setters in the world and berg by judging her form this year ain t there and wei is great but not top 5 material

    Quote from USAvolleyfan

    First Wei is a great setter! Nobody mentions her because she is not so popular in the media like Takeshita or Tomkom.. and for many years she was a sub for Feng who was great and never had a real chance to play. And for Berg she is not playing so bad.. she is playing decent looking at her team.. No chemistry and she has never played in a team where only 1 or 2 players should score... Eda got injured so their scoring MB was out. Paula and Seda were very bad so she only has Kim... FB menagement should've thought about that when hiring her, than maybe Nalay would do the same job - set only to Kim..

    those are the times when a good setter has to display her quality .

    So what you're trying to say is that when Paula or Nihan pass the ball near the ref she should magically set a perfect ball to Kim or Paula.. or maybe a slide to Ipek who hardly can hit a simple middle attack. Or maybe she should hit instead of Seda and try not to get blocked.

    Quote from USAvolleyfan

    So what you're trying to say is that when Paula or Nihan pass the ball near the ref she should magically set a perfect ball to Kim or Paula.. or maybe a slide to Ipek who hardly can hit a simple middle attack. Or maybe she should hit instead of Seda and try not to get blocked.

    Maybe it is, who knows ?....with perfect reception every setter looks good....i was expecting more from Berg...on setting to middles, with an average reception etc....leo has been experiencing the same problems in GsD ,bad reception but she can stil execute some sets very well.......yes the reception was bad in FB and with that, Berg couldnt make much difference for FB as setter...

    Quote from Canter

    those are the times when a good setter has to display her quality .


    exactly Muszynas hitters weren't superior but their setter did magnificent job by using every member of squad unlike Bergy who sets to Kim even with perfect reception :lol: imho next year Fb must choose foreign OP instead of setter

    what i m trying to say is that american players in general are overhyped judgin by their performance in teams in europe and they get that hype by doing great in their nt only american player that i truly admire is logan tom end of story

    Quote from andyivan

    Ya, when talking about top 5 setters in the world, it is really none of her business.
    She was lucky to have Kim and Sokolova last year. It was all about Kim and Sokolova last year, her sets didn't really matter.
    This year the same.


    Yeah sure, this season Kim and Sokolova's performances without Naz prove your words :roll:

    Quote from serdar


    Yeah sure, this season Kim and Sokolova's performances without Naz prove your words :roll:


    Serdar, don't waste your time trying to convince people about something that everyone who has some idea about volleyball knows anyway, and everyone else won't understand it anyway ;)


    Just to show how weak the argumentation of the Naz haters is: you might as well say Lo Bianco and Berg are only good because they always played in great teams etc, look how they cannot show anything great now in GS/Fener and so on :roll:
    Some people don't understand that the quality of the setter is a major factor in the team performance, but of course setters depend on the reception and the attackers. Even the greatest setter in the world cannot shine when she has to run miles and miles during a match or when her attackers constantly attack straight into a single block, and of course weaker setters can look better than they actually are when they have attackers who can save bad sets etc, but in the end, all of that together decides about the quality of a player, and Naz has a very high quality in my opinion.


    I also don't agree with those who say she played bad (or less good than usual) in CL F4, she had some problems with precision in some moments of semifinal, but she made up for that with very good distribution and speed, and I don't remember any sets at all where Brakocevic had problems to attack :roll:

    I don't remember any sets at all where Brakocevic had problems to attack :roll: u serious with that claim? just watch f4 matches on laola1.tv where even comentators say naz was crap entire year and especially f4 but i guess we all should take your word for it how naz is great it was proven naz is not top5 material and she never will be u are as objective as pope when it comes to sex scandals and before u place anything silly as that watch the freaking games of entire year and then come back i freaking hate nabs that like 1 player or a team but because they like them so mutch they can t see past all the bad things that affects that person or a team they like if u watched any game what so ever u would see naz had at least 10 wrong setting on brako each game and where is the rest of the team but no u don t see that all is perfect even when she sets it on the net itself or behind the players back that is a perfect setting for u is it now?
    most of those balls were perfect receptions as well so u can t make excuses so what is next maybe it is hitters fault that they can t jump backwards and score or jump 1 meter higher in the air :mad:

    Yeah sure, this season Kim and Sokolova's performances without Naz prove your words :roll:




    whats wrong with Kim's performance anyway ? she was best scorer despite receiving and attacking at the same time so you fail there (also she does it nearly in every single match inhuman if you ask me )

    Quote from Matthias


    Serdar, don't waste your time trying to convince people about something that everyone who has some idea about volleyball knows anyway, and everyone else won't understand it anyway ;)


    Just to show how weak the argumentation of the Naz haters is: you might as well say Lo Bianco and Berg are only good because they always played in great teams etc, look how they cannot show anything great now in GS/Fener and so on :roll:
    Some people don't understand that the quality of the setter is a major factor in the team performance, but of course setters depend on the reception and the attackers. Even the greatest setter in the world cannot shine when she has to run miles and miles during a match or when her attackers constantly attack straight into a single block, and of course weaker setters can look better than they actually are when they have attackers who can save bad sets etc, but in the end, all of that together decides about the quality of a player, and Naz has a very high quality in my opinion.


    I also don't agree with those who say she played bad (or less good than usual) in CL F4, she had some problems with precision in some moments of semifinal, but she made up for that with very good distribution and speed, and I don't remember any sets at all where Brakocevic had problems to attack :roll:


    True, indeed. However, still it is hard to put up with so injudicious comments while one player shows such an obvious contribution in success of her team :wall: It is not easy to judge properly a setter, especially for novices, but still it is not an excuse to make such controversial arguments :mad:

    It is not a thing I do normally, but, I downloaded the final match, Vakif-Rabita, and watched 2-3 times carefully. If this game is taken as reference only, MVP should have been Gozde (captain as symbol to award team-game) or Furst who was everywhere in front of the net, with high percentage in attacking and blocking. Neither Brakocevic nor Montano or any other player was so effective during the final.Furst was clear MVP of the final. If all games are counted, Montano should have been awarded MVP for her game against Yamamay.

    Are you sure you watch the correct match? If so try it again by leaving prejudices out :roll: Gözde attack %40 ratio + 2 error and also 4 times blocked whereas Brakoçeviç played %52 attacking ration no error and only 1 time blocked :obey: Moreover, Brakoçeviç played with %62 in the Galatasaray match. Thus, Brako fully deserved to be MVP if it was not Glinka or Naz. ;)

    Quote from serdar

    Are you sure you watch the correct match? If so try it again by leaving prejudices out :roll: Gözde attack %40 ratio + 2 error and also 4 times blocked whereas Brakoçeviç played %52 attacking ration no error and only 1 time blocked :obey: Moreover, Brakoçeviç played with %62 in the Galatasaray match. Thus, Brako fully deserved to be MVP if it was not Glinka or Naz. ;)


    Although Gozde's performance wasn't perfect at the final game, she was not so bad, she was everywhere from defence to attacks. My MVP nomination for Gozde wasn't for her individual performance, but, to award the team-game of Vakif since she is the captain. Real MVP was team, team-game Vakif has played. Guess this is clear enough for you, too.


    Glinka MVP? I see, you didn't watch the match at all. Naz as MVP is debatable, but, we didn't see somethings special from her during the game except some penalties. Some of her passes were really bad.


    Anyway, Vakif won against Rabita not because of their attack performance, but, defencing performance and Furst was the best in defencing, she even saved some difficult balls before touching the floor.


    Anyway, if a player is to be singled out, she is definitely Furst, she not only stopped Montano et al by blocks, but also, she attacked perfectly, especially in the 1st set, the set which was important to break the resistance of Rabita. If both games, semi and final, are to be considered, then, Montano should have been MVP, her total pts were 43 (Yamamay) and 15 (Vakif) and she was perfect against Yamamay. No, she isn't player of the winner team? With this logic, Kim shouldn't have been MVP of the olympics either then.


    Glinka and Naz were the decisive players and they were the missing links which other finalist, Rabita, lacks. (their setter sucked at set distribution whereas Naz was perfect at that part, and they also lack one strong winner OH as Glinka) Other position's level were similar (Montano&Brakoçeviç, Akinradewo&Fürst etc.) From my point of view MVP award must be given to the player who makes the difference and contribute the success of the team most, not the captain of champion team, which is very poor argument :what:


    I accept that Fürst was very beneficial at blocking and she improved Vakıf's overall defence system a lot however she was not good at attacking during final game as you claimed :roll: (4 points with %44 ratio is not impressivefor a MB) Montano may have the MVP as well if she did not play so poorly at final. In leagues, local or international, generally MVP award is given to the best player who showed best performance during the final four. However in tournaments such as OG or WCh, a player's performance during whole tournament is decisive. That's why Kim's and Montano's case were different. Besides, Kim reach semis with a mediocre team whereas Montano eliminated on final with a team which is normally supposed to win title ;)