World Cup 2019

This team composition is really great. It could provide high quality entertainment if this torunament would have any meaning. Also ECH and WC dates...

Very easily killed torunanament by FIVB and CEVNobody will convince me that they care about volleyball...

The World Cup no longer serves as an Olympic qualifier. Thus, it becomes a completely meaningless tournament. Not only it has no value, but it also features 12 teams in a round-robin, monstrous format (as far as I know, they haven't changed the format). A real massacre, so to say, and to quote some players who have defined it previously. The only benefit might be for most of the teams to send youngsters or B teams, hence we might hopefully see some new faces. Otherwise, I can't imagine any NT, apart from Japan and maybe the Africans, who will be crazy enough (who knows what Iran will decide to prioritize) to send their A squads.

As for the planning and preparation of Poland, Italy, and Russia, bearing in mind when the ECH ends, they simply must have a B team training specifically for the World Cup. Which is something Russia will probably welcome due to the home WCH in 3 years.

Quote from YavorD

The World Cup no longer serves as an Olympic qualifier. Thus, it becomes a completely meaningless tournament. Not only it has no value, but it also features 12 teams in a round-robin, monstrous format (as far as I know, they haven't changed the format). A real massacre, so to say, and to quote some players who have defined it previously. The only benefit might be for most of the teams to send youngsters or B teams, hence we might hopefully see some new faces. Otherwise, I can't imagine any NT, apart from Japan and maybe the Africans, who will be crazy enough (who knows what Iran will decide to prioritize) to send their A squads.

As for the planning and preparation of Poland, Italy, and Russia, bearing in mind when the ECH ends, they simply must have a B team training specifically for the World Cup. Which is something Russia will probably welcome due to the home WCH in 3 years.

It's not meaningless, Okay? There are ranking points and money prizes, also it's one of the 3 most prestigious volleyball tournaments alongside with WCH and Olympics. I think most teams will want to get as many points as possible, so they will have better chance of qualifying for the next edition.

Quote from Padar

It's not meaningless, Okay? There are ranking points and money prizes, also it's one of the 3 most prestigious volleyball tournaments alongside with WCH and Olympics. I think most teams will want to get as many points as possible, so they will have better chance of qualifying for the next edition.

Let me get through the 2 basic points you have mentioned. The third one is about prestige and this is something rather subjective. The only tournament that probably ranks third in terms of prestige is the respective continental championship, but we would agree this is, again, subjective, and something each federation might treat differently. In terms of world tournaments, there are, like, 5 in total, with 2 of them (listed by you) standing way higher than anything else.

Now, let's start with the prize money. Do we know how much is it? Is it really money that drives teams to participate? Have you seen winners with a giant cheque on the final day? Even it ever popped up once somewhere some time, what has always motivated teams to get through this massacre were the 2 or 3 Olympic berths. Money they can make during the World League/VNL or the club season, surely larger in numbers. Still, don't quote me on the monetary comparison between the VNL and the World Cup, but you got my point.

Last argument - ranking points. I'd give you some credit for that but only to a certain extent. Yes, ranking points would still matter here, you are right, yet let's take a look at the World rankings. The top 8 teams have all participated at the 2015 World Cup and will participate again this year. Whereas their positions have been surely sustained by points from the 2015 World Cup, these 8 teams will mostly distribute the new points assigned in 2019 among themselves again, with eventually only Australia getting a chance to finish a bit higher than the 9th place they had the last time around (theoretically speaking). A drop of points would only be massive if, let's say, the defending champions USA finish 6th or any team from the top 3 drops by, for instance, 3 places.

So yes, although a very bad World Cup finish might have slight consequences for the World rankings until the Olympics (only among the top 8), I doubt any reasonable European federation will cherish the World Cup more than the Olympic qualifiers or, for instance, the European Championship. I would really like to see Russia, in theory, playing on the final day of Euro 2019 in France and then compete in full strength in Japan two days later. Brazil, USA, Argentina, Canada, Australia are all welcome to send their best squads, of course. I would really like to see if they all take it super seriously and all their star players desire to postpone their club seasons.

By the way, the fact that we have the same teams again in 2019 means that they already have, like, 30-40% chances of getting there again because of their previous participations. Although Brazil, Argentina, USA, Canada, Japan, and perhaps Russia, are all kind of safe due to continental restrictions.

All the mess in 2019 is due to Japan being the perpetual host country of the World Cup and also the host of the Olympics next year. Is there another sports like volleyball in which one country enjoys such a special status? This doesn't make sense.

Regarding the Olympic qualification format itself, while a system with 6 pools of 4 teams each fighting for a berth seems reasonable and "fair", with so many pools and such a short tournament, it won't be surprising to see some upsets, feeding Tokyo with some lower-tier teams. Japan tends to get some weaker opponents when they host a tournament so as to help their team reach a better ranking. FIVB seems to give them a hand, whilst profiting $1m from each host country.

Contrariwise, though, it's good for us volleyball fans to have such an action-packed year ahead.

Quote from andrea

Contrariwise, though, it's good for us volleyball fans to have such an action-packed year ahead.

More games doesn't mean better quality, though.

Quote from Fujii-3

Based on your theory, World Cup 2019 is meaningless because European federations value more Olympic Qualification.

This makes me confused as Olympics Qualifications are taking place in August which the World Cup is going to be in October. Both tournaments are not conflict. Teams have one month to rest and adjust. the Olympics qualifier only has 3 matches that which is definitely not a tiring tournament.

As you mentioned yourself in your post, "Brazil, USA, Argentina, Canada, Australia are all welcome to send their best squads", so only problem here is the European teams. Because of European Volleyball Championship which is going to host on late September.

It's clear to me that World Cup is not meaningless as most of the teams in the world will attend it with their best squads.

If some european team wants a continental championship more than a world championship, then let it be.

Display More

Do you know that for sure?

Also, it is not a World Championship but a World Cup, there is a huge difference.

Yes, it conflicts severely with the European calendar, to start with. If this prevents 3 of the top 6 teams from competing evenly with the rest, to me, this is already flawed and no longer a matter of true prestige. But OK, we'll leave the Europeans aside, there are other continents out there, too. Brazil, Canada, and USA will have a month's time to prepare, true. Tehran will host the Asian Championship in the middle of September and we don't know what they will prioritize. Based on previous experiences, however, perhaps they won't care about the home event, we know the story with the Asian Championships has its turns. Still, the only motif for a player to take part instead of heading to club season will be the approaching second round of Olympic qualifications in January, rather not the World Cup itself. With that in mind, maybe some/all will want to spend it with NT teammates two months before the last chance of getting an Olympic berth (knowing, however, that they will all be in a clinical condition once the World Cup is over, thus, seriously putting in question their shape between October and January). Providing that, of course, USA or Brazil, for instance, haven't already qualified in August.

I am perfectly aware there is another angle from which the World Cup can be taken into consideration. You have the full right to be ecstatic about the Cup, I am just not. I would rather enjoy B teams and new faces there.

Quote from Fujii-3

The winner of World Cup is one kind of World Champion, isn't it?

How to call the winner of World Cup? Winner of World Cup (with specific point out) but not a World Champion?

Asian Championship is never been an important tournament in Asia if you happen to have time to look at its history. Iran send its youth team to play last Asian Championship. Same as what China women's team did last Asian Championship .

If players will focus on the continental olympics qualification in January, does it make the club season next year 19/20 meaningless?

I think the argument is not whether your enjoy the B teams and new faces. The argument itself is what you brought up that the World Cup is meaningless without Olympics quotas.

So I still don't get your point. The World Cup become meaningless just only because one (or all) European teams send their B squads even the rest of the world send their A lists to compete!

Lastly, why you assume that Poland, Italy, Russia will not send their A team to World Cup? Any statements from those federations? None of them are hosting countries. Why they are interested in European Championship more than World Cup which has world ranking points. World ranking will directly influence the allocation of Olympic groups.

Display More

Sorry, I need to to comment this. Comparing any other continental champs to European Champs is a sin. 80% (if not more) of the best teams of the world are from Europe.

There was a statement in Polish media, that there will be B roster to go to Japan as it is not possible to play two tournaments which are so close (in dates) and so far away (in distance). WC is very very difficult trounament - 11 matches during 14 days and no profits for this effort. Ranking points? Who needs ranking points at this stage of Olympic qualification...!?

Also there was information that dates of World Cup will be changed, but this is info from October and nothing happened since that: https://siatka.org/pokaz/zrobic-pucharem-swiata/ This was said by Przedpełski - member of FIVB.

EDIT:

In a summary - WC is meaningless and it's a fact. It was always Olympic qualification tournament which helped team to advance to Olympics or gather points for qual. torunaments. Now WC doesn't give olympic qualies and spots for other quali. torunamnets are already distributed.

Quote from Fujii-3

Ranking points for Olympic Group Allocation not qualification.

Qualification. There still will be continental qualies after WC, so this process will be undergoing but FIVB points are not needed by anyone, at least in Europe, as WC doesn't give any points in CEV raking. Allocation was done for world qualies and then points were needed.

I got your point. Allocation is a part of whole qualification for Tokyo and WC19 points aren’t there and won’t be - neither allocation nor qualification.

Advance in premis in group stage at Olympic tournament is already a legend.

Quote from Fujii-3

The winner of World Cup is one kind of World Champion, isn't it?

How to call the winner of World Cup? Winner of World Cup (with specific point out) but not a World Champion?

No, not even close! USA were never the world champions in 2015!!! Poland were the world champions in 2014 and 2018 and reigning in between! Is the World League winner a world champion? No, not even close. Both these tournaments are commercial, with some sports prestige and that's it! They don't offer a title if you win them. The World League/VNL has even a greater social significance because you get the chance to see the best teams on your home soil. The World Cup sends 12 teams in always the same country, makes them play in an insane format for no title whatsoever and, as of 2019, for no real prize (formerly Olympic tickets)! Just a few ranking points, this is all.

Quote from Fujii-3

Asian Championship is never been an important tournament in Asia if you happen to have time to look at its history. Iran send its youth team to play last Asian Championship. Same as what China women's team did last Asian Championship .

I know, this is why I wrote Iran might prioritize otherwise.

Quote from Fujii-3

If players will focus on the continental olympics qualification in January, does it make the club season next year 19/20 meaningless?

No, it will make players who went to the stupid World Cup useless! They would only be truly available after January 2020. I would think twice before signing a World Cup player for the next season or will spend some cash and get ready with replacements until they arrive and are fit/rested again.

Quote from Fujii-3

I think the argument is not whether your enjoy the B teams and new faces. The argument itself is what you brought up that the World Cup is meaningless without Olympics quotas.

What I enjoy has nothing to do with the argument and it was quite clear, I assume. Your enthusiasm towards the World Cup has also nothing to do with the argument.

Quote from Fujii-3

So I still don't get your point. The World Cup become meaningless just only because one (or all) European teams send their B squads even the rest of the world send their A lists to compete!

Lastly, why you assume that Poland, Italy, Russia will not send their A team to World Cup? Any statements from those federations? None of them are hosting countries. Why they are interested in European Championship more than World Cup which has world ranking points. World ranking will directly influence the allocation of Olympic groups.

I explained it now and before in several posts why it is a meaningless tournament. If you still don't get it, then I guess I won't be able to help

If you think a few ranking points without any social or sports reward is what makes a tournament really important (which is obviously the case), then we would have to totally disagree with one another. A title in a serious tournament (continental championship in Europe, WCH or Olympics) is still more valuable than the eventual position in the FIVB ranking. And coaches are usually judged by the success of their volleyball systems - whether it brings titles in major events or whether they play great, even if not always successful.

The allocation of Olympic groups is also ALMOST meaningless. There are just 2 groups, not really much you can blame the serpentine system for, whether you get 1 and 4 or 2 and 3 plays a minor role in the long run. Where the Olympics really begin is the elimination round. The ranking points are important, probably now more than ever, when assigning who gets to participate in the qualifiers. And it is probably the only criterion for those below positions 9 or 10. The ones at the World Cup, if you haven't read my post with the break-down last night, are exactly the same as 4 years ago and their world ranking will not change drastically.

Right, I don't know what the European federations will decide in terms of what squad to send to Japan in October. As I said, however, even if the Russians, for instance, decide to fly directly to Japan with the best players immediately after the ECH finals (whenever it ends for them), they will be everything but competitive during the next two weeks. You can then enjoy a few brutal wins by Australia or Japan against an exhausted, jet-lagged European side.

I am sorry but I find the topic no longer intriguing. Even if you still don't see my point, then, please, feel free to ignore it.

This is why I firmly stand behind players, coaches, teams who challenge the sometimes flawed system and the often inadequate world/continental federations, like Germany did some years ago or Modena's attitude towards European Cups. Had we seen more protests and voices against the ludicrous calendar, rule changes, financial distribution, etc., things might start working out in the end.

Quote from YavorD

More games doesn't mean better quality, though.

To me, this is actually one of the main arguments against a NT schedule as we have this year. Hell, we are already debating now who will send A,B or C teams to these tournaments and probably every single nation will have different priorities/approaches. This imho will diminish the quality of every single competition, including VNL, World Cup and ECH which, if played in a sensible fashion, should all be great tournaments.

And we haven't even started debating how that schedule affects club volleyball if the top players get sent to VNL directly after the season and return to the clubs and play matches directly after ECH and World Cup.....

I agree with YavorD. Sure it be nice to have another tournament to watch as a fan but the World cup seems quite expendable in the scheme of things, especially with all the issues regarding playing load for the top athletes. They should just have the u21 championship in this slot.

Some European users are pathetic. I'm sorry your precious Bulgaria is not eligible to compete, because they can't even make it out of Europe World Cup has always been a prestigious tournament, and World Cup winners have always been seen as world champions.

Check Wikipedia, will ya?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…olleyball_World_Champions

The importance of an annual tournament isn't the same as a QUADRENNIAL tournament, capisce?