2014 CEV DenizBank Champions League

    I ask on volleywood, so will copy/paste here:


    What was criteria to be in your list, where is Mammadova, Montano and couple other players?


    Mammadova was best scorer of Russian league, one of strongest leagues
    in the World, her team because her great season won bronze medal in
    Russia.


    Than you have Skowronska but not Costagrande, both of them play in
    China, league that is far away from series competition, so what is
    criteria you used?


    Cebic didn’t play club competition til October, with national team she was far from good, again what is criteria?


    Gibbermeyer, what result place her on the list? What did Jordan Larson achieved last season? Elitsa Vasileva?

    I don't understand your doubts at all, we should include both clubs and NT season.


    About OHs:
    Maybe Jordan-Larson as you claim didn't achieve anything spectacular, but she's among the best OHs in Russia, comparing to Mammadova she isn't that killer as a spiker, but she has still nice spiking efficiency and she's far better receiver than Mamma, who's often covered in reception :whistle: Moreover Larson had better NT season, while Mamma didn't shine at ECH, receiving only 10% from team with really poor result, while Larson played nice NORCECA Championships, having there best server award.


    Elitsa Vasilieva is among best OHs what she showed in World Grand Prix and she broke record of best scoring player in single match (57 if you don't remember and consider it as an achievement), beating Nicole Fawcett


    About Carolina Costagrande: she didn't show anything special, she's still at quite good level, but more and more people started to complain about her performances... moreover about her I can say that she didn't achieve anything special, comparing to players which did it, though you think differently :whistle:


    About Lauren Gibbemeyer: she's next talented American MB, what she proved during WGP


    About Kasia Skowrońska: maybe not in all matches in China she played as real leader, but what she showed during WGP was outstanding, especially 40 points in match against Russia :thumbsup:


    About Suzana Cebic: Maybe she isn't the best, but still among top liberos, with nice performance in ECH, she was named as best receiver of ECH

    Gold medal - World League 2013 Prediction Game
    Bronze medal - World League 2012 Prediction Game


    Apart from this I think volleywood is making those lists based on national team competitions... So every one of those is a player whose national team did good in some major tournament..

    what did Poland do last season, for me it seams is just players who are always there, never mind what they actually achieve.



    Comparing Mammadova and Larson, if you compare Omsk without Mammadova and Kazan without Larson, imagine which team will hurt more? I just think that one or two great matches, 40 points of Skowronska and Vasileva 57 in Korea (not really value of great achievement), specially after disaster season in Brazil.

    Quote from Jo12.11

    what did Poland do last season, for me it seams is just players who are always there, never mind what they actually achieve.



    Comparing Mammadova and Larson, if you compare Omsk without Mammadova and Kazan without Larson, imagine which team will hurt more? I just think that one or two great matches, 40 points of Skowronska and Vasileva 57 in Korea (not really value of great achievement), specially after disaster season in Brazil.

    Ok, it's your opinion, but I just looked at stats and Larson wasn't so worse. If for you the only important think is spiking, then congratulations :whistle:


    I looked at last season russian league stats:
    Larson 307 points: 246/584 spikes (42 %) + 36 blocks (0.5 per set) + 25 aces (0.35 per set), reception 27% exc./56% pos. (401 receptions)
    Mammadova 557 points: 487/1018 spikes (48 %) + 48 blocks (0.56 per set) + 22 aces (0.26 per set), reception 16% exc./34% exc. (122 receptions)


    In terms of spiking Mamma is much better and was used more often, but she can't be compared with Larson because of her reception and this element eliminates her as complete OH, because she receives too rarely with only mediocre results. Larson is much more universal, Kosheleva, Garay or Vasilieva are also more universal. Even Ting Zhu seems to be the player who can be used as receiver, but she can be comparable with Mammadova because of high spiking potential.


    Maybe Vasilieva didn't shine in club season, but as USAvolleyfan here decided NT season, where Elitsa played better than in Brazil and later this score record (though it was in Korea, but only here we have opportunity to break it).


    In NT season as I said earlier Mammadova wasn't a significant player, so that's a key factor why she isn't among best OHs, though spiking as OH isn't only key factor, for Mamma better option is non-receiving OH or OPP, but for me player without reception shouldn't be consider among OHs, she's Wing Spiker, but not complete Outside Hitter.


    And what do you want from Skowrońska? She's on top level throughout many years and she's so universal: she started career as MB, then she played as OPP, now in Rabita she's OH with better reception than Mammadova :!:


    About losing Mammadova by Omichka, the lost may be visible, but they had in last season tall Alisheva who was second scoring machine and Yulia Kutyukova, both stable receiver and reliable spiker - this two can make difference, last OH instead of Mamma would be either Sazhina or Fateeva, not reliable spikers, but then Kutyukova would be offensive OH and Shlyakhovaya can be used more because she was good MB in last season.


    in Kazan lack of Larson could be a problem: they had Larson, Kosheleva and Del Core, but Kosheleva had serious problems with health, so replacement was Lesya Evdokimova (Makhno) and it was a loss, because Lesya is weaker spike and her reception in last season was so so :whistle:

    Gold medal - World League 2013 Prediction Game
    Bronze medal - World League 2012 Prediction Game

    Quote from iceman008

    Spike and blocks-mammadova, serve and defense-larsson


    Its 2 on 2 doesn't mean that the latter is better :whistle:

    Exactly, it's hard to compare each other: Mammadova is definitely offensive OH, while Larson is more balanced, I wouldn't call her defensive, now in Kazan she's playing with Antonella Del Core so we have more harmony there, comparing to pair Mammadova - Kutyukova, where Mammadova is mostly hidden on reception by Kutyukova and Kuzyakina.

    Gold medal - World League 2013 Prediction Game
    Bronze medal - World League 2012 Prediction Game

    Quote from kondzio

    Exactly, it's hard to compare each other: Mammadova is definitely offensive OH, while Larson is more balanced, I wouldn't call her defensive, now in Kazan she's playing with Antonella Del Core so we have more harmony there, comparing to pair Mammadova - Kutyukova, where Mammadova is mostly hidden on reception by Kutyukova and Kuzyakina.


    Well Larson is certainly not defensive OH. She has become one of the best all-around players.. remember how she spiked in the first matches of the Olympic games.. she and Berg executed great fast plays and combinations with Akinradewo.. Mammadova is a pure attacker, that's it. Also Larson is a pretty good blocker.. If I player does not get to spike often it doesn't mean they can't do that well.. In USA NT with Logan passing she (Larson) can attack more and think less about reception.. this year her job in Kazan is easier in terms of passing because she has Del Core, so she can attack more freely. However I don't think such comparisons can be made, especially for OH because it DOES make a huge difference if you have to pass perfect and than attack or you have to wait for someone else to do that and then attack... It would be the same as you would say Obmochaeva is a great OH, when she is not.. she played as OH for Russia and she rarely passed, but she is a killer attacker so just because she is attacking from 4 you can't speak of her as a complete OH :thumbsup:

    nobody told Mammadova is complete OH, I said that she was more important to Omsk than Larson in game of Kazan. @ Kondizio, by the way Del Core was not last season in Kazan.
    You need player in team as Mammadova and Larson, but not having one of them in team I will always chose spikier who can spike every ball (Mammadova) than one who need perfect reception (Larson)


    Don't want nothing from Skowronska, but definitely there are players with better result last season than her, nobody is talking about carrier of player, we talk about year that pass! and Montano had better year than Skowronska.


    Montano and Mammadova are player who play great even if they don't have support of other players in the team, while most other players who are on this list need great support from team mates, coaches etc. We will all agree that Abodanza, Karch is better coach than Faik or coach from Columbia etc...


    You have example of Kim, she had great season in FB with Logan and Kilic covering her up, and last season she could not play alone, she didn't forget to play, just she could not play alone and her team was not able to make great result. Even this year they will not be able to win over VB, Costagrane is doing job really well in reception together with Gozde so its easy for Brakocevic to shine, while Kim has Fe Garay who is not so solid in receiving as Costagrande.


    This list is lacking seriousness, dividing players on position is not so easy like it was done with this list. Never mind from what zone player attacks or stands in the field, its important how she does job coach is asking her to do.

    I was commenting something that take my attention, intention is not to create list or web page as volleywood etc..or make campaign to change anything, just conversation with people who share same as me passion for one sport, in this case volleyball?


    Maybe better question is what is your intention with your post?
    by the way Kim is not on the list!

    Rephrasing question would you only consider the types of Montano and mamamdova in the "bests" list and exclude those who are not like them?


    Re costagrande: she was great Oct-Dec. But not so much from jan-Sep.