Turkey - Vodafone Sultanlar Ligi 2023-2024

    Quote from QuickOutside

    Across Turkish and Italian league, the top OHs are Gabi and Kelsey - no one else is at their current level as a holistic OH player.. They regularly receive at 60-80%, score >15 points and are reliable at key clutch moments.


    In the OH bucket behind them are Zhu, Arina, Plummer… Plummer has improved substantially in reception, otherwise, I would put her even a level lower. Arina has completely stepped up for Fener, taking on a huge load with Vargas out for the first half of the season and still not back to her best form.


    One level lower, I would include Hande, Ilkin, Cazaute (only if she continues to play as she has the last matches), Herbots, Skinner. These are all elite, reliable and consistent players who contribute meaningfully, and in some matches are stars, but are not consistently and regularly crucial factors for a win.

    Agree on most part of above, I would also put LYY just slightly behind Gabi & the Kelsey this season, just a pity that she still can’t get a chance to play outside China. If Ana Cristina could find the form of last season before the surgery, she is also in the second best group, or even among the best.


    Besides, I honestly think Lanier has big potential to be one of the very best, but she needs to be starter more consistently to be forced to receive more. A pity that she will have to fight a spot with Gabi and Zhu next season?(

    Quote from KVB

    Agree on most part of above, I would also put LYY just slightly behind Gabi & the Kelsey this season, just a pity that she still can’t get a chance to play outside China. If Ana Cristina could find the form of last season before the surgery, she is also in the second best group, or even among the best.


    Besides, I honestly think Lanier has big potential to be one of the very best, but she needs to be starter more consistently to be forced to receive more. A pity that she will have to fight a spot with Gabi and Zhu next season?(

    Lanier is good and has potential but there are other OHs better than her. Her decision of staying with imoco will hurt her chances not only in club but also NT.

    Quote from QuickOutside

    Across Turkish and Italian league, the top OHs are Gabi and Kelsey - no one else is at their current level as a holistic OH player.. They regularly receive at 60-80%, score >15 points and are reliable at key clutch moments.


    In the OH bucket behind them are Zhu, Arina, Plummer… Plummer has improved substantially in reception, otherwise, I would put her even a level lower. Arina has completely stepped up for Fener, taking on a huge load with Vargas out for the first half of the season and still not back to her best form.


    One level lower, I would include Hande, Ilkin, Cazaute (only if she continues to play as she has the last matches), Herbots, Skinner. These are all elite, reliable and consistent players who contribute meaningfully, and in some matches are stars, but are not consistently and regularly crucial factors for a win.

    You talk about "Across Turkish and Italian League" claiming that you put İlkin on lower level.... Based on which input and criteria?

    First of all, İlkin is not a defensive OH but an overall complete OH, who is great in both attack and defence and defense.

    Comparing her reception stats with Gabi, Gabi has 56% reception while İlkin has 55%

    Comparing her attack stats with Gabi has 44% while İlkin has 43%

    Comparing their point/set performance, while Gabi has 3,9 İlkin has 4.08

    While Gabi scored 339 points, İlkin scored 416 points. (Gabi played 29 matches while İlkin played 33)

    While Gabi is having 0.18 serve performance, İlkin has 0.31 (way better than Gabi)


    And,


    İlkin is about to break all time record of the Turkish League Turkish OH Players, which is lead by legendary Gözde Yılmaz with 450 points with +173 W/L.

    ilkin already has 416 points with +212 W/L and needs only 4 points to go on top of Hande, who scored in 2019, 419 points and 166 W/L, while İlkin was suffering from anterior cruciate ligament (acl) at that time, now needs 35 points at least in last 2 or 3 matches to break all times record. Already number one in W/L (if I am not mistaken).


    The question is, what else she should do to be in your top list with Gabi?


    By the way, not sure how many matches of her's you watched but from starting of the season till the end and up to cup qualification for 5th 6th position, she was the key player of the team and she scored 38 points in last 2 matches against Nilüfer.


    Here is the page, indicating the historical success of Turkish OH's in the Turkish League, which you were refferring

    Lol. Has she ever prove herself in the highest level , in big teams with heave burden to bear and big responsibilities? No. She is just a talented player until to prove the opposite. She chocked in all the important matches last year in NT and she has never played in a big team in club. There are CHAOS in the distance between Gabi and Ilkin until the second one to prove the opposite . Also she is not even in the second category of top OH. Probably much lower. She had the quality to become the best but as I said before she has to prove it.

    Quote from serdar

    Why are you putting words in my mouth, I didn't say she has a toxic personality. I just said she has diva attitude. Maybe you are referring to someone else, but people rarely dare to criticize her in this forum anyways.


    By the way, yes people claimed that she played well last season and blamed everyone else in the team: setters, simge, trainer, outsides etc, basically everyone but her🤦

    It's funny how classist people can bash someone perceived on a lower level continuously for years and it absolutely doesn't raise a concern even when it's unjustified. But when you call out a top player for having a bad performance or lacking at times or not always having the best attitude suddenly everyone becomes shocked and a social justice warrior 😂 well not everyone, but a lot of people.


    Like she doesn't need your protection or our approval at the end of the day, she is making millions and playing on the elite level for years, but simply being in a club fighting for the greatest achievements, means critique is only natural and some people should just get over themselves and accept it. I will be the first to cheer Tica on if she wins the league this season and becomes MVP or gets CL next time around. She and her team simply need to do better for that to happen, and for that they will need to self-evaluate and think what's going wrong. Us being in the forum and discuss these performances are basically doing the same thing

    Quote from Steven12453

    Lol. Has she ever prove herself in the highest level , in big teams with heave burden to bear and big responsibilities? No. She is just a talented player until to prove the opposite. She chocked in all the important matches last year in NT and she has never played in a big team in club. There are CHAOS in the distance between Gabi and Ilkin until the second one to prove the opposite . Also she is not even in the second category of top OH. Probably much lower. She had the quality to become the best but as I said before she has to prove it.

    You are really sick man. You need a mental treatment. Just wait. She will be there in NT to make you more sick.

    Quote from Steven12453

    Lol. Has she ever prove herself in the highest level , in big teams with heave burden to bear and big responsibilities? No. She is just a talented player until to prove the opposite. She chocked in all the important matches last year in NT and she has never played in a big team in club. There are CHAOS in the distance between Gabi and Ilkin until the second one to prove the opposite . Also she is not even in the second category of top OH. Probably much lower. She had the quality to become the best but as I said before she has to prove it.

    I get your point to a certain extent, but who to and how does she prove it? To you? You can disagree, and that’s your opinion, that doesn’t make it true. You say much lower.. what does that mean? Stats say otherwise. If you watched her play, you would say otherwise. The fact that currently the Top OHs are ONLY 2 (Kelsey and Gabi) says the opposite. She’s doing a very good job, much better than other world known stars

    Quote from MeteA

    You are really sick man. You need a mental treatment. Just wait. She will be there in NT to make you more sick.

    Your comment is unacceptableand just showed your low level. But if you want to continue like this I will do it too. Yes yes the doctor said to always tell you yes. Ilkin has carried her team to championships , to CL finals , to WCH finals and being the most important player of her NT for years now . She never chocked even in her first VNL play offs neither lost her place as starter in ECCH because she was barely could play. Are you ok with that?

    Quote from USAvolleyfan

    I get your point to a certain extent, but who to and how does she prove it? To you? You can disagree, and that’s your opinion, that doesn’t make it true. You say much lower.. what does that mean? Stats say otherwise. If you watched her play, you would say otherwise. The fact that currently the Top OHs are ONLY 2 (Kelsey and Gabi) says the opposite. She’s doing a very good job, much better than other world known stars


    Quote from USAvolleyfan

    And also.. who says she needs to play for a big club? What does that even mean? GS is pretty big, huge if I say so.. she’s still playing against the best ( aka Fb, Ecz and Vb) it’s not like she’s playing in Romania

    I hate when people understands the truth but there pretend that they do not understand. There are a lot of players who was good in teams with not so many big targets and bad in top clubs. GS has not a big team with big targets in women volleyball. They will fight to take the 5th position in the best case. Did I really needed to write this? You did not know it before ? If you have right she could be starter last year in NT but she easily lost her place by others completely suddenly when thing became more stressful. And to close this matter I believe that she is supertalented and she can be the best but until to see it I can not tell that she is . Simple. This summer will have her chance again but even if she made it she will not be in the same scale with Gabi so quickly.

    Quote from Steven12453

    Your comment is unacceptableand just showed your low level. But if you want to continue like this I will do it too. Yes yes the doctor said to always tell you yes. Ilkin has carried her team to championships , to CL finals , to WCH finals and being the most important player of her NT for years now . She never chocked even in her first VNL play offs neither lost her place as starter in ECCH because she was barely could play. Are you ok with that?

    1 st off all, I replied QuickOutside's post and you really deserve more than this, cause whenever you hear anything for İlkin, you throw yourself like a d...k from a thorn pant, using the same stupid word choke. Try to improve your vocabulary 1st. I am soo kind to people, who has a decend mind and respect. Secondly,you have no idea of being a part and player of Fenerbahçe, Beşiktaş and Galatasaray and the history and reputation and you should feel thankful that, you have a room here in this part of Turkish League Forum, so at least you need to learn, how to behave and respectful. It's been a while reading your nonsense comments about the league and the teams and the players but thinking that it is just an opinion, I ignored. However, insistently attacking a player upon all performance indicators stupidly, deserves nothing else. You look like a bull seeing a red cloak when you hear about İlkin.

    Quote from Steven12453

    I hate when people understands the truth but there pretend that they do not understand. There are a lot of players who was good in teams with not so many big targets and bad in top clubs. GS has not a big team with big targets in women volleyball. They will fight to take the 5th position in the best case. Did I really needed to write this? You did not know it before ? If you have right she could be starter last year in NT but she easily lost her place by others completely suddenly when thing became more stressful. And to close this matter I believe that she is supertalented and she can be the best but until to see it I can not tell that she is . Simple. This summer will have her chance again but even if she made it she will not be in the same scale with Gabi so quickly.

    You are soooo ignorant that I don't know where to start 🤦 you said you were very young before but youth is not an excuse for stupidity. A player doesn't need to play in only top 3 teams to prove they are good. Look at Markova! She played in 8th team of Turkish league but she showed how talented she is, and she was transferred to a bigger team now. GS is probably 5th-6th best team of the league, it is not like she plays in karayolları 🙄 look at skinner, to me she is also one of the best outside hitters right now. Just because she plays in 5th best Italian club, should we just ignore her?


    As I mentioned before, there's draught of outside hitters who can receive well and score a lot. We have only two players everyone has consensus, namely, Gabi and Robinson. However it makes sense to mention about other good outsides who are playing in the same league. As mete already pointed out, İlkin has almost same stats of Gabi. And considering that she is playing in a worse team compared to Vakıfbank. She has been the main attackers/scorer of gs for whole season until very recently once Eggleston also stepped up and started to score a lot. This makes her stats even more valuable since she has to attack a more prepared block all the time. We don't know if she will translate her monster performance in NT but she has already showed very good games last summer although she had some ups and downs like every other big outsides.


    This season Turkish OHs are doing very well at both reception and attack (hande, İlkin, Tuğba). Even Saliha is in a great shape, she is the best receiver of polish league currently (among OHs) and she is carrying her team at playoffs although she lost her starting spot mid season.

    Quote from MeteA

    1 st off all, I replied QuickOutside's post and you really deserve more than this, cause whenever you hear anything for İlkin, you throw yourself like a d...k from a thorn pant, using the same stupid word choke. Try to improve your vocabulary 1st. I am soo kind to people, who has a decend mind and respect. Secondly,you have no idea of being a part and player of Fenerbahçe, Beşiktaş and Galatasaray and the history and reputation and you should feel thankful that, you have a room here in this part of Turkish League Forum, so at least you need to learn, how to behave and respectful. It's been a while reading your nonsense comments about the league and the teams and the players but thinking that it is just an opinion, I ignored. However, insistently attacking a player upon all performance indicators stupidly, deserves nothing else. You look like a bull seeing a red cloak when you hear about İlkin.

    It is difficult to understand things when you are so fanatical about something. I am so sorry about you and other people who think like this. This forum is for entertainment and not for hate. First of all I like Ilkin A LOT and as I said before I believe that maybe she can be top one day but not now for 100%. The fact that she has never won nothing in her life , never played in a club WITH BIG TARGETS , never lead her teams in something important and that she has never played a crusial role in NT are OBJECTIVE TRUTHS and nothing more and the fact that Gabi has done all of these is also OBJECTIVE TRUTHS. Just get a life and put out your your nationalist glasses. I reply in everyone who are trying to create faulse impressions to support their loved ones with zero evidence and funny arguments.

    Quote from serdar

    You are soooo ignorant that I don't know where to start 🤦 you said you were very young before but youth is not an excuse for stupidity. A player doesn't need to play in only top 3 teams to prove they are good. Look at Markova! She played in 8th team of Turkish league but she showed how talented she is, and she was transferred to a bigger team now. GS is probably 5th-6th best team of the league, it is not like she plays in karayolları 🙄 look at skinner, to me she is also one of the best outside hitters right now. Just because she plays in 5th best Italian club, should we just ignore her?


    As I mentioned before, there's draught of outside hitters who can receive well and score a lot. We have only two players everyone has consensus, namely, Gabi and Robinson. However it makes sense to mention about other good outsides who are playing in the same league. As mete already pointed out, İlkin has almost same stats of Gabi. And considering that she is playing in a worse team compared to Vakıfbank. She has been the main attackers/scorer of gs for whole season until very recently once Eggleston also stepped up and started to score a lot. This makes her stats even more valuable since she has to attack a more prepared block all the time. We don't know if she will translate her monster performance in NT but she has already showed very good games last summer although she had some ups and downs like every other big outsides.


    This season Turkish OHs are doing very well at both reception and attack (hande, İlkin, Tuğba). Even Saliha is in a great shape, she is the best receiver of polish league currently (among OHs) and she is carrying her team at playoffs although she lost her starting spot mid season.

    Is Markova playing as an OH in Novara? Did she made as an OH yet in Novara? Does always all the players from middle teams are able to adapt themselves in bigger teams and in the highest ???? Do not we have examples with players who did not make it??? Are you have samples that Ilkin can for sure or you are a fortune teller? Which are the sample and the evidence??? Tell me if you want to make a decent conversations. There are a lot of players in Turkey and in Italy with top stats before like Simone Lee, Anthi , Nicoletti and a lot of others who never played in top teams. Why ? Has llkin won titles or manage anything important to compare her with Gabi? No.

    You have to understand that I did not said that Ilkin is bad but that we do not even have the chance until yet to comfirm if she is so good. Only some bad samples from her first time in an important role which is something normal. But to compare her with GABI right now is more than ridiculous.

    As for Skinner despite the fact that she has shown her talent I am sure that as always opinion was formed by a 5 minute video as always because if you watched her whole season you would know that except her good matches she had also had some really messy performances with many errors ( specially in the second half) and thats why she was not signed by better clubs. But impossible to know things when despite the fact that you accusing others about ignorance nd stupidity , it has been proved again and again that you do not even watch the matchesd and just trolling.

    Quote from Steven12453

    It is difficult to understand things when you are so fanatical about something. I am so sorry about you and other people who think like this. This forum is for entertainment and not for hate. First of all I like Ilkin A LOT and as I said before I believe that maybe she can be top one day but not now for 100%. The fact that she has never won nothing in her life , never played in a club WITH BIG TARGETS , never lead her teams in something important and that she has never played a crusial role in NT are OBJECTIVE TRUTHS and nothing more and the fact that Gabi has done all of these is also OBJECTIVE TRUTHS. Just get a life and put out your your nationalist glasses. I reply in everyone who are trying to create faulse impressions to support their loved ones with zero evidence and funny arguments.

    You are a hopeless case and never give up. I am leaving you on your own...

    Ilkin is doing an excellent job and reached 416 points so far. I am keeping my fingers crossed that she goes over 450 points in the end with the last 2 matches against Kuzeyboru. Looks quite likely, assuming these matches should go to 5 sets.


    I don't agree that she choked in the NT. She did an excellent job throughout the whole VNL, until the US match, where she simply could not block Drews over and over. Rightfully, Santarelli used Derya and Hande (who had a terrible journey whole VNL but finally could step up). That's why you have a deep bench and it is normal a young player has one bad set in such a long tournament. Too bad for her that the bench was too good and she did not get many chances afterwards.


    When it comes to decent OHs, I cannot think of anyone except Gabi and Kelsey right now either. But for defensive ones, I can say Hande and Ilkin are definitely there to challenge and are definitely in top 10. I would not consider players like Arina and LYY in the same category, I would say they are two of the best, receiving in a small zone and hitting very well. While these two can be considered in top 3, I would actually add Ebrar in top 5 when it comes to offensive OHs.

    Quote from Meatballs

    Ilkin is doing an excellent job and reached 416 points so far. I am keeping my fingers crossed that she goes over 450 points in the end with the last 2 matches against Kuzeyboru. Looks quite likely, assuming these matches should go to 5 sets.


    I don't agree that she choked in the NT. She did an excellent job throughout the whole VNL, until the US match, where she simply could not block Drews over and over. Rightfully, Santarelli used Derya and Hande (who had a terrible journey whole VNL but finally could step up). That's why you have a deep bench and it is normal a young player has one bad set in such a long tournament. Too bad for her that the bench was too good and she did not get many chances afterwards.


    When it comes to decent OHs, I cannot think of anyone except Gabi and Kelsey right now either. But for defensive ones, I can say Hande and Ilkin are definitely there to challenge and are definitely in top 10. I would not consider players like Arina and LYY in the same category, I would say they are two of the best, receiving in a small zone and hitting very well. While these two can be considered in top 3, I would actually add Ebrar in top 5 when it comes to offensive OHs.

    Bang!!!

    This is the decend mind.

    Quote from serdar

    you said you were very young before but youth is not an excuse for stupidity.

    I mean agree with this part, but at least he's green, on the other hand you're not even young 😂 what's your excuse for stupidity.

    Wow looks like Ilkin is rocking this year. I trust in statistics more than anyone else including who call themselves export, I specially like the fact that Gabi and Ilkin have almost same percentages for reception, and the fact that Ilkin has way better on serve percentage. Since they are playing in the same league, so receiving and serving should vary very little, for instance on how setter sets, etc. so data points should be quite accurate. No wonder why WB was after her. Way to go Ilkin!!!