Politics and social issues

Our last hopes faded away.

Gözde Öztürk, Dilek Mucuk, Ahsen Baş and İrem Kurtoğlu passed away

😢

🙏

Gotta be one of the most heroic things I've ever seen This woman deserves special status

Nilay, a player for the Turkish NT in basketball, passed away in the eartquake.

Quote from Janko

Polish person sarcastic about sanctions against Russia...well, if you can convince me of that, you can convince me of anything.

I didn't realize he was Polish

certainly, without that context, it reads like sarcasm.

Quote from Janko

Polish person sarcastic about sanctions against Russia...well, if you can convince me of that, you can convince me of anything.

And how would you feel if people from Russian government was saying everyday that your country is next on their list?

Btw Janko, there is no need to be mean towards polish people and people in general. But if you feel better with insulting other nations, then good for you. Especially if we still talking about Olympic Qualification tournament in topic for OQT.

Can we go back to discussions about OQT?

Quote from Phil

And how would you feel if people from Russian government was saying everyday that your country is next on their list?

Btw Janko, there is no need to be mean towards polish people and people in general. But if you feel better with insulting other nations, then good for you. Especially if we still talking about Olympic Qualification tournament in topic for OQT.

Can we go back to discussions about OQT?

Maybe some self awareness wouldn't be bad. Media life is impossible without daily hatred of Poles towards Russia (not country or goverment leaders,....,but every single russian) and i maybe could understand that because of whole history situation, but very often turns into an obsessive disorder (it's well known "fact" (impression) much before this whole invasion anyway) but saying that noticeing that is mean and insulting, i would say that is just another one sign of blindess.

Of course, these are individuals (even if they are in the majority) who create an impression that is later unfairly reflected in the written text on the whole nation, but on this forum we have had a couple of outbursts of that kind, and if you are not aware of it, actually you never reacted, then that maybe it is the accepted matter of the whole nation, so as your compatriot said, you have to learn to live with it.

Quote from Bogdan

Media life is impossible without daily hatred of Poles towards Russia (not country or goverment leaders,....,but every single russian)

To be honest, I don't think there's that much hate, from some longer perspective of time, towards regular Russians in Poland, in fact the general stereotype of Russia in Poland was saying that the country is kinda sick, but people are warm and fine. It has changed in the past couple of years when it has turned out that this distinction between Russia and Russian people isn't that easy considering support of the latter towards policies of the former. Not saying that criticism towards every Russian is justified, but it's impossible to make such dichotomy anymore.

And I also interpreted @Janko's post as a joke, so I wouldn't get too sensitive about it. From some discursive perspective, yeah, we're overreacting about Russia on several levels probably (eg. in criticism of foreigners playing in Russia lately), but we're doing it for a reason, we were (co)occupied by Russia for 123 years and indirectly controlled for another 45 in the last 230 years, with some minor events such as WW II in the middle, lol.

Quote from Realista

And I also interpreted @Janko's post as a joke, so I wouldn't get too sensitive about it. From some discursive perspective, yeah, we're overreacting about Russia on several levels probably (eg. in criticism of foreigners playing in Russia lately), but we're doing it for a reason, we were (co)occupied by Russia for 123 years and indirectly controlled for another 45 in the last 230 years, with some minor events such as WW II in the middle, lol.

Quote from serdar

There are many people who don't support Erdoğan and let's say one day this crazy guy would decide to invade Armenia or another neighbor country, I'm sure many players won't support it but they should be excluded from their dream tournament? I don't think so. Especially not while some other countries can get away from such exclusion despite of their invasions

I dont agree on this. Yes, I don't support Erdogan, but question is "what do I do to stop him?". Most of the Russian girls stay away from politics, but to create awareness in societies, everyone, not just volleyball players have to raise their voice when their government does something like starting a war. If you remain silent, that means you approve it. So in my view of a perfect society with strong and wise reactions to keep leaders under control, everyone needs to react to such big decisions, otherwise they should be fine with punishments following up.

Quote from Meatballs

I dont agree on this. Yes, I don't support Erdogan, but question is "what do I do to stop him?". Most of the Russian girls stay away from politics, but to create awareness in societies, everyone, not just volleyball players have to raise their voice when their government does something like starting a war. If you remain silent, that means you approve it. So in my view of a perfect society with strong and wise reactions to keep leaders under control, everyone needs to react to such big decisions, otherwise they should be fine with punishments following up.

high ranking officials and billionaires mysteriously "falls to their deaths" in their apartments. And you think athletes are more powerfuk over those to make a statement? Not to mention they have roots and families back in Russia. People like you who are in a more democratic country tend to fail tp see that you have privileges most Russians don't. Especially in regards to "speaking up."

And to be fair, lots of people protested in the streets of Russian cities... with a lot of them getting arrested for it.

So you are talking from a point of privilege.

Quote from Meatballs

I dont agree on this. Yes, I don't support Erdogan, but question is "what do I do to stop him?". Most of the Russian girls stay away from politics, but to create awareness in societies, everyone, not just volleyball players have to raise their voice when their government does something like starting a war. If you remain silent, that means you approve it. So in my view of a perfect society with strong and wise reactions to keep leaders under control, everyone needs to react to such big decisions, otherwise they should be fine with punishments following up.

we didn't ask American athletes and athletes from countries who are member of NATO to "speak up" when they were busy "intervening" with other countries. It's funny why we are putting the burden on athletes something we should be asking our governments. We don't demand Japan's athletes to apologize for the atrocities their government keeps on denying. And many more.

Quote from Rhaemon

high ranking officials and billionaires mysteriously "falls to their deaths" in their apartments. And you think athletes are more powerfuk over those to make a statement? Not to mention they have roots and families back in Russia. People like you who are in a more democratic country tend to fail tp see that you have privileges most Russians don't. Especially in regards to "speaking up."

And to be fair, lots of people protested in the streets of Russian cities... with a lot of them getting arrested for it.

So you are talking from a point of privilege.

I agree with this. I don't like Putin and I'm all for the bravery and speaking up against tyranny but we can't just easily judge people who chose to stay silent under such circumstances specially when their lives are on the line. That's why the Russians who spoke against invading Ukraine are so admirable. Imagine a North Korean speaking against Kim Jong-Un.

Quote from Meatballs

I dont agree on this. Yes, I don't support Erdogan, but question is "what do I do to stop him?". Most of the Russian girls stay away from politics, but to create awareness in societies, everyone, not just volleyball players have to raise their voice when their government does something like starting a war. If you remain silent, that means you approve it. So in my view of a perfect society with strong and wise reactions to keep leaders under control, everyone needs to react to such big decisions, otherwise they should be fine with punishments following up.

Thanks for sharing your opinion but I disagree with your stand point, as mentioned above by other users. There are a lot of assumptions in this argument:

Your question is "what do I do to stop him?" And my question is "what can they do to stop him?" As if they possess such an influence.they might have thousands of followers on Instagram but they are 'just' volleyball players. Firstly, they don't have political power to influence a nation's war decisions. Secondly, it is not their responsibility. People do have the right to be apolitical. Why do we put this burden on them? They didn't sign up for this. They just want to do their job, play volleyball.

I also agree with Rhaemon that criticizing tyranny is easier when you are not living under their control. It is easier to criticize those dictators while living abroad in a democratic country.

All in all, people shouldn't be punished for things that they don't have influence on and they shouldn't be kept accountable for things that are not their responsibility

Well if noone will speak up, how do you expect things to change? Should we remain in dictatorships? Should we have the tyranny forever? Do we expect a NATO intervention for things to change? Because the last option is absolutely not my favorite. I believe the change has to come from the society and this will only happen when someone brave enough opens their mouth because courage transmits and eventually you will notice thousands and then millions starting to speak up.

What I said earlier does not apply only to Russian volleyball players. This applies to every individual of a society and is a responsibility of them if they want to see a change. If they do the same for Turkey, I am completely fine with it. But already now, many popular volleyball players in Turkey criticise the government for example, openly, on twitter.

And in my world of justice, US and other countries you mentioned above should have the same punishment if they do/did a similar act. So this does not apply solely to Russia.

One thing you all need to question is: "how can we change the tyranny in any other way than people speaking up, raising awareness and making millions ask questions?". And these punishments and economic sanctions are there to start a fire, making the society to finally open up their mouth. If you want to shut up forever for the sake of your life, family and comfort, I completely respect that. But then you can't complain that you are led by an evil dictator and rest of the world wants to isolate you for that reason, until you start speaking up.

serdar - a personal correction here. Me living in abroad is not applicable here. I always criticised our government openly, went to vote in rurals of Turkey where people were waiting outside the voting place with guns, my entire family living in Turkey openly criticise the government. I guess people like that made sure that there is always a hope in Turkey and a strong opposition. I know my view of change is dramatic if not tragic but rationally speaking, you don't see change in such leaderships until people speak up and go out to streets. Look at Iran during the last 6 months as an example.

Quote from Meatballs

Well if noone will speak up, how do you expect things to change? Should we remain in dictatorships? Should we have the tyranny forever? Do we expect a NATO intervention for things to change? Because the last option is absolutely not my favorite. I believe the change has to come from the society and this will only happen when someone brave enough opens their mouth because courage transmits and eventually you will notice thousands and then millions starting to speak up.

What I said earlier does not apply only to Russian volleyball players. This applies to every individual of a society and is a responsibility of them if they want to see a change. If they do the same for Turkey, I am completely fine with it. But already now, many popular volleyball players in Turkey criticise the government for example, openly, on twitter.

And in my world of justice, US and other countries you mentioned above should have the same punishment if they do/did a similar act. So this does not apply solely to Russia.

One thing you all need to question is: "how can we change the tyranny in any other way than people speaking up, raising awareness and making millions ask questions?". And these punishments and economic sanctions are there to start a fire, making the society to finally open up their mouth. If you want to shut up forever for the sake of your life, family and comfort, I completely respect that. But then you can't complain that you are led by an evil dictator and rest of the world wants to isolate you for that reason, until you start speaking up.

serdar - a personal correction here. Me living in abroad is not applicable here. I always criticised our government openly, went to vote in rurals of Turkey where people were waiting outside the voting place with guns, my entire family living in Turkey openly criticise the government. I guess people like that made sure that there is always a hope in Turkey and a strong opposition. I know my view of change is dramatic if not tragic but rationally speaking, you don't see change in such leaderships until people speak up and go out to streets. Look at Iran during the last 6 months as an example.

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You make it sound so easy. Try criticizing Kim Jong-Un as a North Korean.

Quote from bibetron

You make it sound so easy. Try criticizing Kim Jong-Un as a North Korean.

Oh god stop it please! I am not questioning how hard it is or easy it is to criticise them. My point is: if you don't speak up, nothing will change, never ever. Although it is very hard, deadly and such, that is unfortunately how change happens in such dictatorships.